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	<title>Comments for A Second Thought</title>
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	<link>http://www.middleclassforum.org</link>
	<description>Civilized versus Natural Humanity</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 13 Mar 2011 12:15:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on The Five Forgotten Truths Sign-up by Sign Up for the Five Forgotten Truths &#124; The Middle Class Forum</title>
		<link>http://www.middleclassforum.org/the-five-forgotten-truths-sign-up/comment-page-1/#comment-13924</link>
		<dc:creator>Sign Up for the Five Forgotten Truths &#124; The Middle Class Forum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Mar 2011 12:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.middleclassforum.org/?page_id=2591#comment-13924</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] The Five Forgotten Truths Sign-up [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Five Forgotten Truths Sign-up [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on Pop&#8217;s Letters &#8211; August 17, 1965 by Harry</title>
		<link>http://www.middleclassforum.org/pops-letters-august-17-1965/comment-page-1/#comment-13904</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Jan 2011 15:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.middleclassforum.org/?p=2568#comment-13904</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wise enough to know that the Vietnam War was going to be a failure before it really got going.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wise enough to know that the Vietnam War was going to be a failure before it really got going.</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;Signs, Signs, Everywhere the Signs&#8221; by admin</title>
		<link>http://www.middleclassforum.org/signs-signs-everywhere-the-signs/comment-page-1/#comment-13876</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2010 14:23:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.middleclassforum.org/?p=2490#comment-13876</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sigh.  I have counterpoints to this but, unfortunately, what&#039;s the sense?  I know where you are coming from because, well, I&#039;m as familiar with a corporate culture as anyone.  Your worldview lineage traces back to Plato&#039;s commitment to reason, on to Hobbes commitment to order to save humanity from ourselves, on to Hamilton&#039;s commitment to centralized government for the sake of commerce and corporations as the best pursuit of that order, and on to Friedman or von Mises claiming that capitalism, wealth and liberty are intricately linked together.  Think tanks probably keep you quite well-informed on what your worldview should be.

For you to know where I&#039;m coming from you would have to know something about natural humanity, of which you know little.  To you I probably come off as intelligent but a little wacko.  To me you come off as intelligent but ignorant.  It&#039;s like Plato&#039;s cave reversed, where outside the cave lies natural reality.  I&#039;ve seen what&#039;s outside the cave of civilization, you haven&#039;t.

I don&#039;t expect you to ever have the experience of leading essentially a nomadic tribe living life on our own terms, like I have.  However, I encourage you to read either Limited Wants, Unlimited Means or Stone Age Economics.  There are others I could suggest but those provide a good overview of &quot;uncivilized&quot; humanity.

Until you educate yourself in this manner you only have a civilized &quot;cave&quot; view of what democracy, natural rights, social behavior, public interest and quality of life are all about.  I expect you would still be turned off by my position, since you have not had my experiences and reading alone won&#039;t convince you, but at least you would have a better idea what my position is and what lies behind it.  Otherwise your comments, though at times entertaining, come across to me as those of an ignorant cave dweller interpreting shadows on the wall.  Please educate yourself (beyond think tanks and corporate media venues) and provide some evidence of that before commenting further.

Since I do not expect you to do that--you&#039;ve got civilization figured out for yourself so why look beyond that--I&#039;ll just wish you well with your life now.  Bye.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sigh.  I have counterpoints to this but, unfortunately, what&#8217;s the sense?  I know where you are coming from because, well, I&#8217;m as familiar with a corporate culture as anyone.  Your worldview lineage traces back to Plato&#8217;s commitment to reason, on to Hobbes commitment to order to save humanity from ourselves, on to Hamilton&#8217;s commitment to centralized government for the sake of commerce and corporations as the best pursuit of that order, and on to Friedman or von Mises claiming that capitalism, wealth and liberty are intricately linked together.  Think tanks probably keep you quite well-informed on what your worldview should be.</p>
<p>For you to know where I&#8217;m coming from you would have to know something about natural humanity, of which you know little.  To you I probably come off as intelligent but a little wacko.  To me you come off as intelligent but ignorant.  It&#8217;s like Plato&#8217;s cave reversed, where outside the cave lies natural reality.  I&#8217;ve seen what&#8217;s outside the cave of civilization, you haven&#8217;t.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t expect you to ever have the experience of leading essentially a nomadic tribe living life on our own terms, like I have.  However, I encourage you to read either Limited Wants, Unlimited Means or Stone Age Economics.  There are others I could suggest but those provide a good overview of &#8220;uncivilized&#8221; humanity.</p>
<p>Until you educate yourself in this manner you only have a civilized &#8220;cave&#8221; view of what democracy, natural rights, social behavior, public interest and quality of life are all about.  I expect you would still be turned off by my position, since you have not had my experiences and reading alone won&#8217;t convince you, but at least you would have a better idea what my position is and what lies behind it.  Otherwise your comments, though at times entertaining, come across to me as those of an ignorant cave dweller interpreting shadows on the wall.  Please educate yourself (beyond think tanks and corporate media venues) and provide some evidence of that before commenting further.</p>
<p>Since I do not expect you to do that&#8211;you&#8217;ve got civilization figured out for yourself so why look beyond that&#8211;I&#8217;ll just wish you well with your life now.  Bye.</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;Signs, Signs, Everywhere the Signs&#8221; by Benjamin Franklin</title>
		<link>http://www.middleclassforum.org/signs-signs-everywhere-the-signs/comment-page-1/#comment-13875</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Franklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Oct 2010 12:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.middleclassforum.org/?p=2490#comment-13875</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The logical free reaction to this saddening spectacle is to not participate.&quot;

Democracy is not for sissies.  

&quot;We need to marginalize campaigning in our society, which means we need to marginalize parties.&quot;

Democray is not for the intellectually lazy.

&quot;I do trudge myself out to vote because, well, I guess I’m sufficiently brainwashed.&quot;

One choice is always better than the other, even if only by a small measure.  

&quot;But I am entirely cool with people that don’t vote ...&quot;

It is precisely because of people like this that the political process has become degraded to the extent that it has.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The logical free reaction to this saddening spectacle is to not participate.&#8221;</p>
<p>Democracy is not for sissies.  </p>
<p>&#8220;We need to marginalize campaigning in our society, which means we need to marginalize parties.&#8221;</p>
<p>Democray is not for the intellectually lazy.</p>
<p>&#8220;I do trudge myself out to vote because, well, I guess I’m sufficiently brainwashed.&#8221;</p>
<p>One choice is always better than the other, even if only by a small measure.  </p>
<p>&#8220;But I am entirely cool with people that don’t vote &#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>It is precisely because of people like this that the political process has become degraded to the extent that it has.</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;Signs, Signs, Everywhere the Signs&#8221; by admin</title>
		<link>http://www.middleclassforum.org/signs-signs-everywhere-the-signs/comment-page-1/#comment-13874</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Oct 2010 19:43:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.middleclassforum.org/?p=2490#comment-13874</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, that was a dumb choice of words, the result of doing things quickly before going off to an appointment.  I edited the phrase as needed.  Though, I might add that democracy existed long before elections or laws did, despite what the Harvard Law Creed and other civilized folks fancy.  Prehistoric cultures were egalitarian, including women, with everyone equally impacting the decision-making.  They were tremendously more democratic than any society featuring elections in this &quot;civilized&quot; day and age.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, that was a dumb choice of words, the result of doing things quickly before going off to an appointment.  I edited the phrase as needed.  Though, I might add that democracy existed long before elections or laws did, despite what the Harvard Law Creed and other civilized folks fancy.  Prehistoric cultures were egalitarian, including women, with everyone equally impacting the decision-making.  They were tremendously more democratic than any society featuring elections in this &#8220;civilized&#8221; day and age.</p>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;Signs, Signs, Everywhere the Signs&#8221; by Kim Jong-il</title>
		<link>http://www.middleclassforum.org/signs-signs-everywhere-the-signs/comment-page-1/#comment-13873</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim Jong-il</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Oct 2010 16:20:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.middleclassforum.org/?p=2490#comment-13873</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;...I can’t see how elections are anything but counterproductive to democracy.&quot;


Why, I could not have said it better myself.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;I can’t see how elections are anything but counterproductive to democracy.&#8221;</p>
<p>Why, I could not have said it better myself.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An Author&#8217;s Learning Curve by admin</title>
		<link>http://www.middleclassforum.org/an-authors-learning-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-13870</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Oct 2010 14:16:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.middleclassforum.org/?p=2483#comment-13870</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[LOL!  Now who is the one hypothesizing conspiratorial action?  Whether there is or not I am not privy to it.  Indeed, I admitted that I overstepped empirical bounds by using the rhetorical gimmick of the Powell Cabal.

You do allude to a fair line of inquiry, though your presentation of it is what one might expect from someone who thinks anonymity is a virtue.  What&#039;s so special about me explaining why the collapse happened two years in advance when others predicted it as well?  I have three answers to that.

1.  I presented data of quite a few unbalanced trends extending back to the seventies.  Both the depth and the breadth of the data I present is greater than Schiff or most other pundits.

2.  I point out that such data is effectively hidden or ignored (even by folks like Schiff) and this type of misinformation is at the heart of the problem more than specific economic policies.  Indeed, a few months before the economic meltdown I drove home that point on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.middleclassforum.org/hans-out-of-luck-introduction-final-excerpt/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this blog post&lt;/a&gt; in a serendipitous response to a WSJ article about keeping balanced trends in perspective.

3.  I correlated the unbalanced trends with the growth of a public relations infrastructure intended to misinform us about the role of corporations in an economy.  Indeed, I also have &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.middleclassforum.org/think-tank-explosion/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;a blog post&lt;/a&gt; reporting on the white paper Think Tank Explosion, regarding the industry that now receives over a billion dollars a year funneled in from corporations.  Schiff and others explain &quot;why&quot; in terms of the economic mistakes made.  I explain &quot;why&quot; in terms of what dooms us to make such mistakes and prevent us from rectifying them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LOL!  Now who is the one hypothesizing conspiratorial action?  Whether there is or not I am not privy to it.  Indeed, I admitted that I overstepped empirical bounds by using the rhetorical gimmick of the Powell Cabal.</p>
<p>You do allude to a fair line of inquiry, though your presentation of it is what one might expect from someone who thinks anonymity is a virtue.  What&#8217;s so special about me explaining why the collapse happened two years in advance when others predicted it as well?  I have three answers to that.</p>
<p>1.  I presented data of quite a few unbalanced trends extending back to the seventies.  Both the depth and the breadth of the data I present is greater than Schiff or most other pundits.</p>
<p>2.  I point out that such data is effectively hidden or ignored (even by folks like Schiff) and this type of misinformation is at the heart of the problem more than specific economic policies.  Indeed, a few months before the economic meltdown I drove home that point on <a href="http://www.middleclassforum.org/hans-out-of-luck-introduction-final-excerpt/" rel="nofollow">this blog post</a> in a serendipitous response to a WSJ article about keeping balanced trends in perspective.</p>
<p>3.  I correlated the unbalanced trends with the growth of a public relations infrastructure intended to misinform us about the role of corporations in an economy.  Indeed, I also have <a href="http://www.middleclassforum.org/think-tank-explosion/" rel="nofollow">a blog post</a> reporting on the white paper Think Tank Explosion, regarding the industry that now receives over a billion dollars a year funneled in from corporations.  Schiff and others explain &#8220;why&#8221; in terms of the economic mistakes made.  I explain &#8220;why&#8221; in terms of what dooms us to make such mistakes and prevent us from rectifying them.</p>
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		<title>Comment on An Author&#8217;s Learning Curve by Randolph and Mortimer Duke</title>
		<link>http://www.middleclassforum.org/an-authors-learning-curve/comment-page-1/#comment-13869</link>
		<dc:creator>Randolph and Mortimer Duke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Oct 2010 13:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.middleclassforum.org/?p=2483#comment-13869</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;...the one titled “The Supply of Capital” explained two years in advance why the meltdown happened.&quot;

Meh:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw&amp;feature=related

Now, if you could explain that the whole thing was planned and why it was planned (not why it happened), that would be impressive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;the one titled “The Supply of Capital” explained two years in advance why the meltdown happened.&#8221;</p>
<p>Meh:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw&#038;feature=related" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related</a></p>
<p>Now, if you could explain that the whole thing was planned and why it was planned (not why it happened), that would be impressive.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Bush and Truman &#8211; War Profiteers by admin</title>
		<link>http://www.middleclassforum.org/bush-and-truman-war-profiteers/comment-page-1/#comment-13864</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Oct 2010 15:19:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.middleclassforum.org/?p=2464#comment-13864</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Now that was clever and funny!  Admittedly, I had resolved to ban all your comments.  That may seem dogmatic, but imagine yourself in a similar position.  Let us pretend, just hypothetically of course, that you had a radio show where you interviewed authors.  You probably would avoid providing a forum to any author you felt was going out of his/her way to be antagonistic.

Ah, but if I&#039;m to have a platform that speaks out against dogmatic ideology I realize I need to practice what I preach.  Regardless of past history when I experience a current comment that would entertain my readership I should let it go, and your comment was entertaining.  Nice job!

I have one small quibble, which I hesitate to add to an entertaining comment.  I think &quot;War Profiteering&quot; may be, at least at times, too positive.  After all, people can profit through an honest day&#039;s productivity put to good use.  As a counterexample, in the case of Haliburton you have a corporation that could not survive without stockholders and no-bid contracts constructing 63 out of 65 contaminated water plants (the numbers are off the top of my head and may be slightly in error), while forbidding representatives to inform our own Marines they were using contaminated water.

No, when the product does not matter at all because making money through government coddled investments is the goal, I think &quot;War Investing&quot; is a much better term to apply to folks like Bush II and Truman ... and a good many stockholders out there.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now that was clever and funny!  Admittedly, I had resolved to ban all your comments.  That may seem dogmatic, but imagine yourself in a similar position.  Let us pretend, just hypothetically of course, that you had a radio show where you interviewed authors.  You probably would avoid providing a forum to any author you felt was going out of his/her way to be antagonistic.</p>
<p>Ah, but if I&#8217;m to have a platform that speaks out against dogmatic ideology I realize I need to practice what I preach.  Regardless of past history when I experience a current comment that would entertain my readership I should let it go, and your comment was entertaining.  Nice job!</p>
<p>I have one small quibble, which I hesitate to add to an entertaining comment.  I think &#8220;War Profiteering&#8221; may be, at least at times, too positive.  After all, people can profit through an honest day&#8217;s productivity put to good use.  As a counterexample, in the case of Haliburton you have a corporation that could not survive without stockholders and no-bid contracts constructing 63 out of 65 contaminated water plants (the numbers are off the top of my head and may be slightly in error), while forbidding representatives to inform our own Marines they were using contaminated water.</p>
<p>No, when the product does not matter at all because making money through government coddled investments is the goal, I think &#8220;War Investing&#8221; is a much better term to apply to folks like Bush II and Truman &#8230; and a good many stockholders out there.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Bush and Truman &#8211; War Profiteers by Randolph and Mortimer Duke</title>
		<link>http://www.middleclassforum.org/bush-and-truman-war-profiteers/comment-page-1/#comment-13861</link>
		<dc:creator>Randolph and Mortimer Duke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Oct 2010 16:52:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.middleclassforum.org/?p=2464#comment-13861</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;War Profiteering&quot; is an interesting phrase.  We suspect that those who commonly use it do so with a negative connotation, but does this (connoting negativity) stand up to scrutiny?

Say instead we had &quot;non-profit weapons manufacturing&quot;.  It just doesn&#039;t sound bad-ass enough.  How could an enemy take this seriously?  &quot;Non-profit&quot; conjures up images of Birckenstock-clad, windchime-hanging, organic herb garden-growing pinko hippies, totally unsuited for the manufacturing of effective weaponry.

Better to stick with the &quot;profiteering&quot;, even if only at least for the sake of image.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;War Profiteering&#8221; is an interesting phrase.  We suspect that those who commonly use it do so with a negative connotation, but does this (connoting negativity) stand up to scrutiny?</p>
<p>Say instead we had &#8220;non-profit weapons manufacturing&#8221;.  It just doesn&#8217;t sound bad-ass enough.  How could an enemy take this seriously?  &#8220;Non-profit&#8221; conjures up images of Birckenstock-clad, windchime-hanging, organic herb garden-growing pinko hippies, totally unsuited for the manufacturing of effective weaponry.</p>
<p>Better to stick with the &#8220;profiteering&#8221;, even if only at least for the sake of image.</p>
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